Відео

It's also another riff on Tolkien and the whole concept of Dwarfs that the "Men of Stone" could be the ancestors of the Votann.

excellent analysis and discussion

Great shoutout to Olaf Stapledon! 🤌

I just want more robots

I would love to read a Dannii Harwood 40k romance espcially how pretty she looks. after her next book interview her again

Could it be possible the the Iron men killed off the stone men(possible cyborgs) first because they knew how to shut off the A.I. and then went after biological entities?

A good analogue for Age of Strife pre Unifications wars Earth, would be Fist of the North Star Earth. The other big difference between the Custodies and Space Marines. Is that Custodies are not made from any template and are enhanced (from the best available on Terra) baseline human stock on Earth. They are what the EoM considered the apex of human race and why nothing extra like special artificial organs like in the Space Marines. Some argue that the Custodies are in fact Golden Men remade by the EoM hence why they where Gold colored armor and are only enhanced baseline human form. Hence why female Custodies don't break the lore since their creation has nothing to do with Y chromosome, still doesn't explain why no Pysker Custodies though. I would love in Unification War series (if we ever get it, GW's writers want to do it by the powers that be has said no so far) where get a reason the EoM killed the Thunder Warriors in way he did. Because based on everything we know about how unstable the hot housed Thunder Warrior genome was, any that survived the Unification War were gonna die, badly, as their bodies rapidly failed. Image a scene with the 2nd Primarch and the EoM, not the gene-son of EoM, but the Thunder Warriors 2nd Primarch. Where the 2nd see's his Thunder Warriors becoming more and more unstable mentally and genetically. Asking the EoM if the Thunder Warriors who don't die in battle, are not going to have good ending. With the EoM telling him no, they will die badly. Then later the 2nd asking with his dying breath after receiving mortal wounds in middle of Unification Wars, begging the EoM to give the Thunder Warriors a good death. The EoM promises to make it painless when time comes, for the 2nd to begging him no. That don't put them down like animals, that let them die like men and the warriors that they are. Showing how human still the EoM was in those days and that he fulfilled his promise to the 2nd.

First Heretic and Betrayer, just to set the tone :)

The blend of gothic/Native American culture was much more unique and cool than the purely gothic “knights in space” theme.

So they are mostly mythological entities created by intelligent life forms who believe they are gods? Just like real life? Except in Warhammer they actually exist, because Warp can spill into real space?

I loved this one. Could you do a similar one for the Cursed Founding?

VIII

I can only speak for myself but there are at least 3 good reasons why I dislike the Primaris marines. 1) The invalidating of people's armies at a stroke. It sucks when it happens to any army. All the time, effort and money that went into a particular project just ends up as a display piece, ends up in a shoebox or as something to sell on eBay for peanuts. That's probably one of the design objectives of the Primaris launch that Ian didn't explore: to take control from the practically flooded second-hand market. 2) The changes to the lore locks people into the present and gives no chance to explore past events. People wanting to theme an army around the Badab War, the first three wars of Armageddon and so on have to either look at the second-hand market or make armies that are anachronistic. Which brings me to number 3 - the Primaris stink of Deus Ex Machina. It's not even particularly well done. The galaxy is at its darkest and all of a sudden, this project suddenly stems the tide and then pushes back with new technology from a culture that we are told considers innovation to be heresy? Please. It's bad enough that the power armour designs aren't very compatible with previous marks of armour, forcing us to have cookie-cutter, factory-fresh models rather than the bespoke relic that each suit of armour is meant to be. Please don't add bad writing to the list of grievances. Again, it's pretty clear what GW wanted to do with this: they wanted to shake up their most popular range and make it exciting for new players. It just so happens that everyone who invested in the range before that just got the shaft. Even if I don't agree with every single point Ian makes (I feel that calling people who resent having their old projects invalidated "entitled" is a bit much, especially given how much the minis cost), he makes them well. They are well considered, thoughtful and expressed with a little bit of humour thrown in for good measure!

Reminds me of a quote I read from a director a few years ago to the effect of "It's impossible to make an anti-war film focusing on the soldiers. When the audience sees people trying to do something hard they will eventually start rooting for them" which is the opposite effect that he was aiming for. Since Imperium humans are the POV characters for most of the fiction it's hard to make compelling fiction without encouraging the audience/reader/player to identify with the characters and indirectly their goals.

The shield of Baal campaign was so very cool, in lore, in art and in really interesting scenarios (like the one where a gigantic global tsunami is slowly moving across the battlefield as the Imperial forces try and defend a gigantic crawler vehicle) with some great Black Library fiction. I still hold the end of the novella Deathstorm as personal canon regarding the Spawn of Cryptus rather than what's said in Codexes.

Men of gold looks at the custodies.

I thought Oud was missing and likely deadin the webway after the failed Drukhari meeting went wrong?

Good job collecting all those author quotes for the video. I've been enjoying your content and your collabs with Mira a lot lately, and I think that one of the strong points of your work on youtube is acknowledging the authors and history of GW as not being separated from the development of the setting. Most youtubers don't do that and likely many simply don't know the real world story of Warhammer (the most notable exception being Luetin)

Wars are bad. But the wargames are freaking awesome!

Amonia atmosphere...must smell great

Man does his research

I believe the men of gold were the perpetuals plus emperor as he waited to advance the human race but ai backfired and thats y the emperor has banned AI in 40k

40k lore is so good. Well, mostly.

So what I am getting at here is that the league of Votann may have been the ancient human whose STC is shaping the Imperium? This sounds like dwarf/squat supremacy theories here... AND I AM ON BOARD FOR IT!

When you first started talking about the "Men of Stone" I immediately thpught of Dwarves, so when it circled aroumd to the Leagues of Votan, I went "Aha!" This talk of intermediate history makes me interested to know how the other mythical races evolved. Is the world of Warhammer ancient Earth? Or is it actually a different universe from 40K?

Thank you so much for doing this. I started the series when I was in middle school and it’s really hard to accept that it’s over. I kind of wish I could go back and read them all again, but I don’t have the time so I’m really happy that you’re doing it. Keep up the good work.

I'm only interested in the 40K lore. It seems GW's plan is to string us along hoping for a return of the Imperium of Man to something close to its former glory. Primarchs, golden age of technology, etc. Now it seems like the Imperium is stagnant because the Mechanicus is afraid to innovate, Big E is slowly falling apart on the Golden Throne, the Primarchs are mostly MIA. It's going to take 30 yrs. or so for the Primarchs to return and/or Big E to make a triumphant return to lead the Imperium out of this mess.

Me waiting for Ferrus Manus to come back as a dreadnought, completely ignoring his skull us on a pedestal in a Iron hands fortress. 😅

You had me at "with moving maps!"

You mean 18.

3:05 *eurrrgh* I hate it when I do that 🕳️ 👀

Thudd Gun just sounds so much better

Every day I wake up and my mind is blown that we don't have a League of Votann Black Library novel yet.

23:35 Wrong image. Those are humanoid Cylons that were MADE by some 13th tribe members being referenced. Members of the show who were of the 13th Tribe are referred to as "The Final Five," and were born naturally amongst their own kind rather than being multi-clone copies like the ones depicted. A self perpetuating species that breeds normally but is artificially designed is what's being referred to.

I have a theory, that on material plane you are material; yet your feelings and thoughts are not. Where the Warp touches the material plane, both you and your feelings and thoughts are material. And inside the Warp itself, your thoughts and feelings are material; but you are not.

@ArbitorIan There seems to be a lot of screeching about the changing of "things I hold as cannon so how dare you change anything!" The static tendency will always get ya. But anyways, I don't have a problem with the idea of there being female Custodes. It makes "sense" in that they are works of art compared to a space marine boiler plate design. It would be like comparing Da Vinci's David to a McDonald's logo. Not to mention that NO ONE (that we know of) knows or understands how a Custodes is created. Maybe with the complexity of the gene science they're more rare than their male counterparts. Given the fact that in a galaxy of a MILLION imperial planets and QUADRILLIONS of citizens and that the Custodes have basically been in seclusion in what amounts to an oversized castle for the past 10,000 years, even the most "knowledgeable" imperial power has little idea what goes on with them inside those walls. Add to the fact that there are never more than 10,000 at any given point, it makes sense that it COULD be a thing. I will say though that I'd have more of a difficult time believing in a female space marine. If we're taking the gestalt god's eye position of the 40k universe, "we" know and understand too much about how a space marine works and is created. I believe that's why GW was okay with introducing female Custodes and not space marines. I think that most reasonable people just wish that GW hadn't been so hamfisted in its implementation. Give more context, make it a believable story with a cool lore introduction. More than anything that's what I like in my lore. Make it a good story and make it plausible.

THANK YOU SIR!!! U are the true example of an accurate historian for this subject - great presentation and research !!! plz make more more - ur great at this :)

A lovely, logical theory that would make sense and connect all the dots and it is for those very reasons that GW won't be using it.

the men of stone could easily be cyborgs and "mutants" (squats, etc) especially technologically inclined ones, men of iron could simply be humans (psykers as well) and men of iron/steel are ai inhabiting a metal body

I like the idea that the Men of Gold might be The Emperor's natural, biological offspring/descendants.

fantastic video, really enjoyed it!

Primaris broke 40k for me. Yes I'm an old fart. But. They could've just re-scaled them ... tbf I like the look of some of the new guys, but hate, hate, HATE the lore. Apparrently the GOD of humanity can be outdone by some random tech-dude, because reasons. Nope, back to old editions for me. It's a shame, because they'll never please everyone, but, the setting was fine, you have a million worlds, stop getting caught in the ULTIMATE APOCALYPSE (until the next one) loop, just explore what you have. And seriously get better lore writers, even before 8th the lore writing was going downhill.

Thanks for the video, it was great! Ever since I watched Terminator 1(in a much too young state!) I've been facinated with AI in books, comics, games and movies. I didn't know much about the Men of Gold nor the Men of Stone, capturing stuff! I hope will will see more of the Men of Iron in the future

To me it leads on from fantasy warhammer. Men and dwarfs aka stone men both were on terra.. dwarfs are good at making shit from a lore point of view. so in 40k lore, man and dwarf ally for a while and go space exploring. Stone men get better than humans or golden race.. dwarfs make AI and get fucked for it, civilization disappears and humans carry on.

British people say "sixth" so weird

Throughout the video I was imagining the Votann fit quite well as a possible solution. And, lo and behold, at the end I wasn't disappointed. This is now my my head-canon. Thank you for another great video

As always a really interesting video! However I'm currently playing through Warhammer 40k: Rogue Trader, and I'm curious if you'd ever considered doing a video focused on a particular piece in (videogame) media . I'd (after I am finished with the game) love to watch a deep dive of the different factions that appear in the game! Admittedly, there are quite a few so its either a series of videos or too much of an ask, but at times a certain piece of medie to discuss a couple of subjets (with proper links to any video diving even deeper into the matter) would be alot of fun to watch! :)

Leagues of votan 9th edition codex states that they are the fabled men of stone and linked to humanity, but the secret they don't want revealed so they will not fall under the imperium.

Leagues of Votann mentioned!!!! What the hell is an extensive range!!!

League of Votann being short, practical minded miners. Dwarves being 'of the stone' in classic fantasy, digging too deep for mithril: Men of Stone creating the Iron Men and unleashing the horror. Hadnt really connected that before.